Qo’shma Shtatlar nazarida Qirg’izistonda yaqinda o’tgan parlament saylovlari mintaqadagi ilk demokratik tanlov bo’ldi. Lekin saylov bilan ish bitmaydi, deydi prezident Barak Obama, Qirg’izistonga layoqatli va birdam hukumat kerak.
"Amerika Ovozi" AQShning mintaqaga nisbatan bugungi siyosati uchun mas’ul Robert Bleyk (Robert Blake) bilan muloqotda bo’ldi. Bleyk Davlat departamentida Janubiy va Markaziy Osiyo masalalari bo’yicha byuro rahbari.
Navbahor Imamova: Avvalo suhbat uchun vaqt topganingizdan minnatdormiz, janob Bleyk. Prezident Obama Qirg’izistonni “saylov muvaffaqiyatli o’tdi” deb tabriklar ekan, “Amerika bu demokratik yutuqqa erishish uchun faol hissa qo’shdi” dedi. Vashington aynan nima qildi?
Robert Bleyk: Prezident aytganidek, biz Qirg’izistonda demokratiyani quvvatlash uchun 5 million dollar ajratdik. Birinchidan biz nomzodlar orasidagi 9 teledebatga homiylik qildik. Mamlakat bo’ylab yoshlarni saylovga jalb qilish uchun informatsion kampaniya, targ’ibot ishlari olib bordik. Markaziy Saylov Komissiyasiga texnik masalalarda maslahat berib turdik. Shuningdek, sudya va advokatlarning malakasini oshirdik, toki ular saylovdan tushgan shikoyatlarni qonuniy ravishda ko’rib chiqsin, norozi fuqarolar arzini eshitsin, ularni himoya qilsin. Saylov iloji boricha bir tartibda o’tishi uchun hissa qo’shdik degan umiddamiz.
Navbahor Imamova: Janubiy viloyatlar O’sh va Jalol-Obodda odamlar saylov haqida u qadar ijobiy fikrda emas. Ayniqsa o’zbek aholi orasida ishonch deyarli yo’q. “Amerika Ovozi” bilan gaplashgan odamlar iyun oyidagi qonli voqealarda hujjatlaridan ayrilib, saylovda ovoz bera olmaganini, ayrimlar esa ovoz berishga majburlanganini aytayapti. “Ota-Yurt” kabi millatchi partiyalar odamlarni qo’rqitib, ovoz olgani haqida ma’lumotlar bor. AQSh kuzatuvchilari sizga bunday hollar haqida informatsiya berishdimi?
Robert Bleyk: Biz bu haqda eshitmadik. Aksincha, bizga ma’lum bo’lishicha, butun mamlakat bo’ylab erkin ovoz berilgan. Zo’ravonlik hollari kuzatilmagan. Fuqarolarning 56 foizi ovoz bergan. Bu past raqam emas. Yevropada Xavfsizlik va Hamkorlik Tashkiloti va boshqa xalqaro kuzatuvchilar ham u qadar jiddiy muammolarni ko’rmagan. Eng ko’p uchragan muammo bu saylovchilar ro’yxati eski ekani bo’ldi. Majburan yoki bosim ostida ovoz berish hollarini biz ko’rmadik.
Navbahor Imamova: Qirg’izistonda ko’pchilik “bizda liderlar ko’p, lekin haqiqiy lider, yetakchi yo’q” deydi. Bu saylovlar bilan mamlakat barqaror bo’lib qolmaydi deydi. Bu jamiyatdagi tub muammolar – etnik nafrat, korrupsiya, siyosiy elitadagi jinoiy elementlar va iqtisodiy taqchilik saylov bilan hal bo’lmaydi, deyishadi. Mana siz, Amerika yordamga tayyor, deb aytayapsiz. Qanday strategiya asosida?
Robert Bleyk: Menimcha, demokratik tizim bu muammolarga qarshi kurashda yordam beradi. Biz buni quvvatlashda davom etamiz. Roza Otunbayeva, nazarimizda, lider sifatida dadil harakat qilmoqda. Saylov natijasi aniqlanib, koalitsion hukumat vujudga kelgach, ko’p narsa oydinlashadi va AQSh mamlakatda ijobiy o’zgarishlar bo’ladi degan umidda. Demokratik jarayonlar samara bersa, bu mintaqadagi boshqa xalqlarga ham o’rnak bo’ladi.
Havo bazasi masalasi
Navbahor Imamova: AQShning Manasdagi tranzit markazi, havo harbiy kuchlari, saylovoldi kampaniyasida ko’p tilga olindi. Parlamentdan joy oladigan “Ota-Yurt” partiyasi rahbari Qamchibek Tashiyev Amerika bazasiga o’rin yo’q, ularni chiqarib yuborish kerak deyapti. Vashington Qirg’izistonning bunday qarashdagi rahbarlari bilan gaplashishga qanchalik tayyor?
Robert Bleyk: Bizga ayon bo’lishicha, Tashiyev oldin parlamentdagi boshqa partiyalar bilan maslahatlashib, keyin bir qarorga kelishini aytayapti.
Navbahor Imamova: Pokistonda transport va ta’minot yo’nalishlari xavf ostida ekanini hisobga olsak, Afg’onistondagi harakatlar uchun hozir Markaziy Osiyo orqali o’tadigan ta’minot tizimlari juda muhim, shunday emasmi?
Robert Bleyk: Manasdan asosan harbiylar o’tadi. Pokiston orqali asosan yuk olib o’tiladi. Oldingi savolingizga kengroq javob bersam. Biz Qirg’iziston bilan Manas va boshqa jamiki masalalarda gaplashishga tayyormiz. Yangi hukumat istasa, biz muzokaraga hozirmiz. Bizning pozitsiyamiz shuki, Manas Afg’onistondagi harakatlarimiz samarasi uchun xizmat qilmoqda va Afg’onistonda tinchlikka erishilsa, bu Markaziy Osiyo xalqlari uchun ham muhim. Afg’oniston va Pokiston jangarilardan tozalansa, bu Qirg’izistondek yaqin davlatlarga ham foyda.
Navbahor Imamova: Qirg’izistonda Rossiyaga moyil koalitsiya vujudga kelishi mumkin. Bu aloqalarga qanchalik ta’sir qiladi?
Robert Bleyk: Rossiyaga moyillik, bizning nazarimizda, Amerikaga qarshilik degani emas. Biz yaqin o’tmishda Rossiya bilan Qirg’iziston bobida hamkorlikni oshirdik va bu borada birgalikda ishlay olamiz. Rossiya ham Afg’onistonda tinchlik bo’lishini istaydi.
Navbahor Imamova: Siz va boshqa mutasaddilar Qirg’iziston demokratiya bobida qo’shni davlatlarga o’rnak bo’la oladi deb kelayapsiz. Bu bilan mintaqadagi boshqa respublikalar demokratik jihatdan ancha orqada deb ochiq aytayapsiz, shundaymi?
Robert Bleyk: Yo’q, aytmoqchimizki, biz demokratiya butun region bo’ylab keng qanot yozishini istaymiz. Inson huquqlari qadrlanishini xohlaymiz. Bu borada xalqlarga yordam berish bizning prioritetlarimizdan biri. Bu ochiq va davlatlarni hurmat qiladigan siyosat. Gapimiz shuki, demokratiya avvalo sizning manfaatingiz uchun xizmat qiladi. Mintaqa barqaror, farovon va xalqlar rahbarlardan rozi bo’lishi uchun demokratik qadamlar tashlash kerak.
O'zbekiston bilan aloqalar
Navbahor Imamova: Siz Amerika va regiondagi davlatlar orasida samimiy va mushtarak manfaatlarga asoslangan muloqot yuzaga kelmoqda deb kelasiz. Inson huquqlarini qadrlash ham mushtarak manfaat, shunday emasmi?
Robert Bleyk: Fikrimizcha, shunday.
Navbahor Imamova: So’rayotganimning sababi, ayni damda O’zbekistonda “Amerika Ovozi” jamoatchi muxbiri sudlanmoqda. Unga o’z materiallari orqali jamoat xavfsizligi va tartibiga xavf solganlik aybi qo’yilmoqda. Yana ko’plab shaxslar, hukumatni tanqid qilgan yoki siyosatni savolga tutgan fuqarolar qamoqda yoki tazyiq ostida. Amerika bu borada xavotir bildirib keladi, lekin o’sha siz aytgan samimiy muloqotlarda O’zbekiston tomonga buni qanday qilib tushuntirayapsiz?
Robert Bleyk: Abdumalik Bobayev ishi haqida gapirayapsiz, shundaymi? “Amerika Ovozi”ga besh yildan beri ishlab kelayotgan, professional faoliyat yuritgan bu shaxsning jinoyatga tortilishi bizni juda xavotirlantirmoqda. Matbuot va so’z erkinligisiz biror jamiyat oldinga siljimaydi. Bobayevning maqolalari hech kimga tahdid solmaydi. Matbuotga erkinlik berish O’zbekiston hukumati uchun foyda keltiradi, ayniqsa agar chet eldan sarmoya oqimi oshishini istasa. Sarmoyadorlar erkinlik va oshkoralikni xush ko’radi, ularsiz investitsiya kiritishni xohlamaydi.
Navbahor Imamova: AQSh 2011 yilda Afg’onistondagi qo’shinlarini olib chiqa boshlaydi. Bu bilan Vashingtonning dunyoning bu qismlariga nisbatan siyosati ham o’zgaradi deya olamizmi? Prioritetlar demoqchiman.
Robert Bleyk: Afg’onistondan qachon chiqishimizni u yerda kelasi yilgacha nimaga erisha olishimiz hal qiladi. Biz mamlakatni birdaniga tark etmaymiz. Buni prezident ham, u yerdagi qo’mondon - general Deyvid Petreus ham aytib kelmoqda. Maqsad Afg’oniston va Pokistonda Al-Qoida va uning hamkorlarini ildizi bilan yo’qotish.
Navbahor Imamova: Amerika yana qanday prioritetlarga ega?
Robert Bleyk: Katta maqsadlar… Ulardan biri Markaziy Osiyo orqali va mintaqa bo’ylab savdo yo’llari vujudga kelishiga hissa qo’shish. Mintaqani shimol va janub bilan bog’lash, energetik va boshqa boyliklarni jahon bozoriga olib chiqishda yordamlashish. Xavfsizlikni ta’minlash yo’lida hamkorlik qilish. Amerikadan sarmoya olib kirish uchun sharoit hozirlash. Inson huquqlari, demokratiya va fuqaro jamiyati targ’iboti va boshqa juda ko’plab maqsadlar. Biz bu sohalarning barchasi xususida davlatlar bilan gaplashayapmiz va qo’ldan kelgancha harakat qilayapmiz.
Navbahor Imamova: Katta rahmat, janob Bleyk.
Robert Bleyk: Sizga ham rahmat, juda mamnun bo’ldim.
Eslatma: Davlat kotibi bilan avvalgi suhbatimizni ham tinglab tomosha qilishingiz mumkin.
INTERVIEW BY ROBERT O. BLAKE, JR.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE
FOR SOUTH AND CENTRAL ASIA AFFAIRS
WITH VOA UZBEK SERVICE
WASHINGTON, DC
October 13, 2010
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: President Barack Obama congratulated the people and the government of Kyrgyzstan on Monday and issued a statement saying that the United States has played an active role in facilitating this democratic achievement. Tell us about what exactly America did.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: Certainly. As the President said, we’ve actually dedicated about $5 million to supporting democracy in Kyrgyzstan. Specifically with respect to these elections we did a number of things that I think your listeners would be interested in. First, we provided support for nine televised debates that took place between the candidates. The United States also funded a nation-wide information campaign to encourage young people to participate in the elections. We also provided some expert advice to the Central Election Commission on some of the kinds of technical issues that they would confront like voters lists and absentee ballots and so forth. Then we also provided some training for judges and for attorneys on the complaints and appeals process that sometimes needs to take place with respect to adjudicating complaints that individual parties might make. So I think we played quite an important and active role and I hope we contributed in some small way to helping to ensure the success of what were, as the President said, very, very positive elections.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: In the southern region, specifically in Osh and Jalal-Abad which are our target area, people have mixed feelings about the elections and many say that they didn’t even vote. There is also a huge number of Uzbeks who lost their documents during the June violence and were not able to get new ones, and thus they were unable to vote. On top of this there were also reports that some Uzbeks were forced to vote and they were forced to vote for nationalist parties like Ata-Jurt under the threats that if they didn’t their houses might be burned or their families might be attacked. We know that you had observers on the ground. Do you have any information that confirms those reports?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: I must say I didn’t hear such reports. We heard, on the contrary, that there were good turnouts in all parts of the country, and that there was not any significant violence that we were aware of, and that the turnout throughout the country was about 56 percent which is a very credible figure. I think the OSCE, ODIHR, also had large numbers of observers around the country and they didn’t report any significant irregularities either. I think the ones that they did talk about were things like some concerns about the voters lists that had not been properly updated. But I didn’t hear any reports about either people being forced to vote in one way or not being allowed to vote, as far as I know.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: Also many citizens of Kyrgyzstan who talked to VOA say that their country just has too many leaders and the problem is that there is not “a” leader for the country, and that they doubt that the outcome of these elections will solve the underlying problems in the country -- instability, ethnic tensions, corruption, criminal elements within the parties, political elite, not to mention the poor state of economy. The Obama administration, and you in particular, have been saying that America is committed to help. What is the strategy?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: First of all let me just say that I think democracy will help to address a lot of these issues. You mentioned there are no leaders. I think there has been a leader in the form of Interim President Otunbayeva who’s done quite a lot. But as a result of these elections, now, they will - the Central Election Commission will first have to determine which parties will qualify, and there is still some question about that, about whether a sixth party will also qualify. But once they determine that they’ll then certify the elections and then parliament will then have 15 days to choose how to form a new government. That will then lead to the voting of a new prime minister. Again, that will be a very important step in democratic development in Kyrgyzstan and in the rest of Central Asia. So I do believe this is a very positive outcome and we hope something that will provide a positive example to other countries in the region.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: Manas Transit Center has been a hot topic throughout the campaign. The Ata-Jurt party, which is one of the leading parties in the elections now says that it will propose closing the U.S. military facility, in fact the party’s leader, Kamchybek Tashiev, yesterday said that he thinks the new parliament should definitely consider this. Are you prepared to deal with that?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: First of all, I heard a somewhat different report of what he actually said. I heard that Mr. Tashiev said that he wanted first to consult with other parties about this and other issues, and that only after such consultations would they make a decision about Manas and about other important issues such as the future of the Police Advisory Group that the OSCE is proposing to deploy. So I think he made a much more moderate statement than the one you just cited to me.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: We know the recent problems in Pakistan with transport and logistics for U.S. forces make access to Manas and other logistical routes across Central Asia more important now than ever, right?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: Again, mostly it’s troops that transit through Manas. Not so many through Pakistan. So some of the issues that you mentioned in Pakistan don’t really affect so much the transit of troops into Afghanistan. It’s more the transit of supplies. But to your wider question, of course we’re always prepared to talk with the new government about Manas and all the other very important priorities that we have in our common agenda. So once that new government is formed we, if they’d like to discuss those things we very much welcome that conversation. Because we see that the Manas Transit Center is part of a wider shared objective that we have, which is to help to stabilize Afghanistan so that militants in Afghanistan and Pakistan do not pose a threat either to their neighbors like Kyrgyzstan or to the United States.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: You’re also saying in a way that if the parties, new members of the Kyrgyz parliament form strongly pro-Russian coalition, that might not reflect on Kyrgyz-American relations.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: I wouldn’t say that any party that is pro-Russian is necessarily anti-American. I think one of the real improvements and opportunities that we’ve seen over the last year in our Central Asia policy has been the closer cooperation that we have had with Russia, particularly on Kyrgyzstan. I think Russia has very much a shared objective in terms of Afghanistan. And so we’ve welcomed, again, this increased cooperation and are looking for ways that we might be able to build on that cooperation.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: You and some other American officials dealing with the region have repeatedly said that Kyrgyzstan could serve as an example of democracy in Central Asia. So in a way you’re saying that the other countries in the region are not necessarily striving for democracy, right? Or are we misunderstanding that?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: We very much support the expansion of democracy in the rest of Central Asia. A very important part of our overall engagement with all of these countries is to support improvements in human rights, in religious freedom and in other important issues like that. Again, that’s been an important priority for us and will continue to be that. We do this in a respectful manner, and we do this because we think it’s in their own interest to do this. It’s not something they should do to please the United States. It should be something that will help to improve the stability and ensure the support of their people.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: You often say there is a genuine dialogue between America and all these countries in the region and that you deal with them based on mutual interests.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: Yes.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: Respect for human rights is a mutual interest, right?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: I think it is.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: I’m asking this because as we speak, and as you know, there is a trial underway in Uzbekistan where a journalist is facing criminal charges for his work with Voice of America. Authorities are accusing him of threatening the public security and order through his critical reports, and there are also many other cases where people with critical opposing views are being jailed or harassed. What is this country’s position, and how are you making it clear to the government of Uzbekistan?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: I think you’re referring to the case of Mr. [Boboyev]. We have followed that case very closely. We are concerned by his arrest and by his trial, and we are monitoring very closely the trial that’s going on right now. He has been an independent journalist for the Voice of America for the past five years. We think he has done very good work that should not be of any concern to the government of Uzbekistan. So we will continue to monitor this very closely because I think it does say a lot about the importance of a free press. Again, I think this is something that’s in the interest of the government of Uzbekistan and can help some of its wider objectives like trying to encourage more foreign investment and so forth. The more that foreign investors see there’s a free press and there’s internet availability and things like that, the more they will believe that there’s an open, competitive environment, and that they can do business there.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: One last question. Is the prospective withdrawal from Afghanistan beginning as this administration says in 2011 going to affect policies and priorities toward Central Asia?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: I don’t want to mislead your viewers here. I think what the President has said is that the United States will begin to withdraw troops from Afghanistan in the summer of 2011, but he has also been clear -- he and General Petraeus and others have been clear that the pace and the scope of those withdrawals will really depend on factors on the ground. Things like the progress that we and other members of the coalition are making in training up Afghan national security forces so that they can assume control of a lot of the security responsibilities. But it will also depend on other factors such as the strength of the Taliban at the time. So we are not going to make any hasty withdrawals that will undermine our overall objectives which are to ensure that al-Qaida is disrupted, dismantled and defeated in Afghanistan and also in the border areas in Pakistan.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: What will you say are the other priorities in Central Asia except cooperating on Afghanistan obviously?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: I think we have quite an important and ambitious agenda with all of our friends in Central Asia. I think one of our most important long-term objectives is to support this idea that Central Asia can be the hub and the lynch-pin of a new “silk road” that would unite the markets of Russia and Europe with the energy supplies of Central Asia and the very large markets in India, Bangladesh, and Pakistan. And there’s a very I think compelling logic to that. Central Asia could benefit a great deal from that trade and from the reemergence of such a “silk road”. A big challenge, of course, will be to improve the security situation in both Pakistan and Afghanistan so that trade and energy can transit through those countries. But again, that’s what we hope to see emerge in all of this part of the region. In the mean time we’re working to promote more American trade and investment in the region; we’re working to promote democracy and human rights; and we’re working on a variety of other priorities such as the upcoming OSCE Summit that will occur in early December that the current Chairman in Office of the OSCE, Kazakhstan, will host.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: How do you define their presidency so far?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: I think Kazakhstan has played a very constructive role. We’ve worked very closely with them. I think that this will be an important opportunity to kind of refocus the OSCE and to develop a new common agenda on the way forward for the OSCE.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: You mentioned democracy and human rights a bit earlier. So there is a special attention by the United States on the development of civil society in the region, specifically, for example, in Uzbekistan.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: Very much so. That’s an important part of our dialogue everywhere, and that will also be an important part of the OSCE Summit that we have in December. We are looking forward to there being a very strong NGO component to that so that NGOs will be able to participate and observe the proceedings and also can have their own summit in the days leading up to the days when the heads of state will be there.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: Is Hillary Clinton going there?
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: We don’t have any particular announcements to make right now about that, but I’m sure we’ll be making announcements in the not so distant future.
VOA UZBEK/NAVBAHOR IMAMOVA: Thank you so much.
ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLAKE: Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to talk to you.
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